(“THE KEY TO PEACE AND HAPPINESS”)
(Reviewed by Ed Burch and George Anderson Jr.)
The following are selected quotes from a 4 tape (Audio) series called the “Doctrine of Submission”, promoted and taught by Greg Estep, former pastor of Charity Baptist Church and the President Emeritus of Charity Baptist Bible Institute and Seminary. We also have a more complete transcription of Mr. Estep’s teachings (35 pages). Page numbers are from our treatise: A Scriptural Examination of the Doctrine of Submission (52 Pages).
Shortly thereafter Mr. Estep makes a statement about belief: “We must take Him and use Him before He affects
salvation in your life.”
PAGE 2: In order to
justify his three “classifications”
of Christians matching Saul, David and Absalom, Estep claims that: “there’s a difference in rebelling against the law of God like David, and rebelling
against the authority of God like Saul. There is a difference – Saul overthrew the authority of God, David never did. The Pharisees were guilty of overthrowing
the authority of God! They had taken over!! And there was NO Forgiveness!” Luke
PAGES 2-3: Estep recounts the events after Paul’s
conversion according to his own version: “Going down to an insignificant
saint like Ananias and subjecting himself to the authority of that man. Who
was Ananias? He was a peon
man, a nobody! And Paul had
been a somebody! He just had a somebody
experience on the road to
PAGE 5: Estep states: “When Jesus Christ gave the example of submission and when He washed
the Apostles feet, He told them - He said: Happy are you if you know these
things and do them– do what? Be
absolutely, totally in subjection! There He
put Himself in subjection to the ones who were in subjection to Him!”
John 13: 12 So after he
had washed their feet, and had taken his garments, and was set down again, he
said unto them, Know ye what I have done to you?
13 Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.
14 If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also
ought to wash one another's feet.
15 For I have given you an example,
that ye should do as I have done to
you.
16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his
lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.
17 If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them.
PAGE 7: Early on in the second tape
Estep states: “Holiness is a work of worship.”
Page
10: Estep then goes
on to comment on parent and child and husband and wife relationships and makes
the following assertions: “Children that
are disobedient to their parents are disobedient to God. Their problem is
with God. Wives that are disobedient to their husbands just haven’t submitted
to God Husbands that, husbands that are not – Hey Husbands that are not in
subjection to the pastor that
God’s given them, can you imagine a man, can you imagine a man trying to get
his family to follow him when he’s all the time griping about the preacher.”
PAGES 10-11: Estep continues on: “If your pastor goes in the wrong direction then don’t, then don’t, jump on him. Just go to the Lord and say: Now
Lord you led me to this church, and you, and I’m going to follow that man,
and if that rascal takes us down to the Red Sea and we all drown I’m going to walk right behind
him!”
PAGE 12: Estep continues his remarks: “Hey, do you realize, look, do you realize
the nature of God as is compared with the nature of us? How, how absolute
opposite and contrary those 2 natures are? And yet He came down and took upon that nature and died for us, that we
might have a nature like Him.” Philippians 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took
upon him the form of a servant, and
was made in the likeness of men:
PAGE 14:
Estep then
states: “God gave you a woman as a helpmeet. She meets your needs. A man
doesn’t have tenderness.
So God gave a woman so the child would have both righteousness and
graciousness.” Ephesians 4:31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger,
and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you,
with all malice: 32 And be ye kind
one to another, tenderhearted,
forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.)
PAGE
16: Estep continues
in the same vein: “Are you afraid that
ah, some of the men of the church are going to get together and fire you if you
admonish them? Are you slack in your admonishing? I mean if there’s a problem
in your church, what ah, you know what sometimes preachers the only
thing they’ll do is they’ll go to God and say: God here’s a problem, oh God,
You gotta work this- Hey! GOD’S NOT THE PASTOR OF THAT CHURCH! He’s put YOU down there so YOU could take care of it.” 1Peter
PAGE 17: Estep continues: “Now there are people that are gonna say well
we’re not going to have a pastor until we can find someone who meets all
of these qualifications. Well let me remind you of something: Paul said
after being saved for 30-35 years ‘not as though I had already attained’. ‘I
count not myself to have apprehended, but this one thing I do, forgetting those
things which are before, I press toward the mark’ . . . . Those are ideal
qualifications, those are qualifications that a man should
certainly be striving for and in
general should be uh,
characteristic of. But you’re not
going to find a man today that’s going to meet every one
of those qualifications exactly.”
1Timothy
3:1
This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must
be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given
to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but
patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his
children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take
care of the
6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the
condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without;
lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
Titus
1:5
For this cause left I thee in
6 If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful
children not accused of riot or unruly.
7 For a bishop
must
be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled,
not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
8 But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just,
holy, temperate;
9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been
taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince
the gainsayers.
PAGE 18: Estep
continues on the same subject: “You just
have to let God take care of that. If God says to you: ‘you go there’ –
you go there. You may find that in one or two or three of these qualifications he
may need some work. Why don’t you pray for him that
be a blessing to him. And uh, I’m not gonna, I’m not gonna argue with you about, uh, all what you think. The best thing to do is
just get a hold of God in your life and find out what God thinks. If God thinks
the man is good enough to be a pastor that ought to be good enough for you. If
God’s established him, ordained him, you know a lot of people are worried about
sometimes they’ll look at little peripheral things and they won’t see that people are getting saved; they won’t
see that families are getting right; they won’t see missionaries getting
supported. They see all of these little kinky
things. I worry about people who won’t see the real things that are going
on and they’re always cognizant of these little
bitty things out here on the edge.”
PAGES 20 - 21: Estep continues with his comments: “Look! Jesus Christ is the Head of the Body
of Jesus Christ. Right! Whether you call it a church, I don’t care what you
call it. The Bible calls it a church in Ephesians 1:22.
You can call it the church in prospect, you can call it the church in
promise, prophecy, I don’t care! It doesn’t matter! Just get in it! OK? That’s
all that really counts. But He is the Head of the Body; HE IS NOT THE HEAD OF THE LOCAL CHURCH.” (Ephesians
PAGE 22: Estep continues: “If the local body is a type
and picture of the, of the spiritual body of Jesus Christ, the spiritual
church. This is the local church that manifests that to the earth; like water baptism
manifests the spiritual baptism; like our communion supper manifests or
pictures our future supper with Jesus Christ and His past death. IT’S A TYPE!” 1
Corinthians
PAGE 22: Estep continues with his comments: “I mean what, what, what could
the world see of the church other than this body that gets together? We
are the church. But we’re not all the church. There is a spiritual body that encompasses every believer and over that church
we have one Pastor, one Bishop. We have the bishop of the church, the apostle
of the church, the Lord Jesus Christ, Who is the Head of the church. but, for
manifestations sake and for – since we deal with the physical realm
and physical problems, and physical life; God makes
a man the physical head
and spiritual leader of the, and God makes a pastor the spirit – Look! He
says that He’s the Chief Shepherd. That means, that tells me that a man who is
an elder in 1 Peter Chapter 5 is an under-shepherd
I’m not the
Chief Shepherd. He’s the Chief Shepherd. BUT, I AM THE CHIEF SHEPHERD HERE!”
PAGES 22-23: Mr. Estep continues: “In a local
church where God has given ME the
AUTHORITY OVER THOSE PEOPLE, TO RULE THOSE PEOPLE, NOBODY ELSE! A man,
a man is not a, no one else is to rule in your family but you. God has
delegated that authority to you. Nobody else is to rule! How many heads are
there in your family? How many heads are there on your body? How many heads
should there be in this LOCAL
body? How many heads are there in
the spiritual body
of Jesus Christ? There’s always one! Always one! You’ve got one Bible, one salvation, one plan of salvation, one Spirit,
One Lord, One baptism, one faith, one hope, one calling. Why in God’s Name
would you have two authorities then in a local church? It will not work! As, as soon as you have two authorities
you have a split.
It may not manifest itself for 4 or 5 years but it’s coming
– unless one of the authorities backs down and usually that’s what happens to a
pastor. He is pressured down and pressured down by committees or by congregational authority. Why would you allow anybody in your church to overthrow the authority
of your pastor? You say: ‘well my pastor just isn’t leading right’. Then find
you a pastor that you can follow! Get on your knees and say: ‘God is this where
you want me?’ And if God says yes, you
follow him wherever he goes!”
PAGE
23: Estep
continues on: “There is
only two things you can follow: ‘Walk in the spirit, and you shall not fulfill
the lusts of the flesh’. God is checking you all out. Are you going to walk in
the spirit? If the Spirit has anointed that man to be the pastor of that
church, you just shut up,
like you keep telling your wife – shut
up and let me lead!”
Pages 23 & 24: Estep continues: “You just shut up and let him lead! Amen! Turn
to John, I only got five more minutes. If there’s one, it isn’t so much the
people that have overthrown the church; too many times the pastor has allowed
it to happen. If a pastor just takes the authority and the power that God’s
given him, and exercises it, God will work that out. God will get rid of –
LOOK! In John Chapter 10, it’s 25, 26, 27. Doesn’t it say ‘I know my sheep’, I can’t
remember, I’ve got so many things going through my mind. “Who’s that talking?
That’s a shepherd
talking. Now he knows all of the sheep, amen? And spiritually all of the sheep
follow Him. I realize that there’s – well you say that sheep there isn’t
following Him. Spiritually
that sheep is following, but that sheep is walking in the flesh so the flesh is
not following Him. When you look at a Christian, when a Christian sins, you’re
not looking at a Christian that’s sinning; you’re looking at flesh that’s running
the Christian. The Christian is really, truthfully
the spiritual part of that man; who’s inside there saying: No, no, no, no,
don’t take me. No, no, no, don’t take me, no. Right? He said ‘my
sheep hear my voice’. Preacher have you got people in your church that don’t
hear your voice? They ain’t sheep!”
Page 24:
Estep
continues with his exposition: “There are
two other kinds of things that can get involved in the church. Matthew 25 goats
are contrasted with sheep and Matthew 7 wolves in sheep’s clothing.
A sheep hears your voice and will follow.”
PAGES
24-25: Estep is
winding up his dissertation: “So if I’ve got those people in there, what are they really
do after a time? They’re gonna be disgruntled,
they’re gonna get bitter, they’re gonna
be, be, be, become, beginning to defile others, and turning others against me.
They will begin to devour the sheep. What should I do then? If I recognize
somebody’s not a sheep, what should I do? I sure shump
man, before they get to the sheep. If I let them stay there I’m destroying my own
flock! You just have to do that. There’s Biblical precedent, I’ll
tell you what, tomorrow we’ll through the, we’ll go through the, the, commands
to a pastor, to a leader, on Biblical discipline and how to handle it in your
church.”
PAGE
26: Tape
Four starts with Mr. Estep talking about the Bible account of Barnabas and Paul
being called, separated, and sent out, which can be found in Acts 1: 1-7. He makes the statement: “The church and the Holy Spirit
are one. When you get saved you get baptized in the Holy Spirit, every
Christian got that.”
PAGE 27: Estep continues: “Yes sir, we don’t have any direct line, you know some of us are charismatic
and don’t know it. You know we think, we get on the charismatic’s
for having visions. But we don’t do what the pastor tells us, you
know we have our own authority! We’ve
got a direct telephone line, you know, to God!
PAGE 27: Estep continues – still scoffing: “You
know He’s telling us everyday that your preacher
is doing wrong even if he isn’t.” Mr. Estep gets serious again: “God would never by-pass your preacher! What would you do what would you think of God if He came to your
wife and told your wife to disobey you? What would you think of the
duplicity, the duplicity of that? Well do you think that God is going to
tell a Christian to by-pass the authority of his own pastor?”
PAGES 31 & 32: Estep continues: “Oh my, I’m gonna finish up with what I told
you I would do yesterday. Turn to 1 Corinthians 5- this business of discipline.
As there is discipline in the home, there absolutely has to be and must be
discipline in the church. This is what’s neglected in
PAGES 33 & 34: Estep continues: “Our church is ten years old. We just uh, uh, ordained our first
deacon. Amen? De-can, some call him de-con. Uh, one deacon, and I waited for 2 years. He’s
worked for us for two years. He’s on a salary. He does nothing but the physical labor around our church, and the buildings,
and the grounds. That’s all he does. He
doesn’t teach anything, he has no spiritual duties
other than his own Christian life – He
is a deacon. He does all the physical things just like Acts Chapter 6 says he’s
to do. And he
does everything I tell
him to do. When he’s driving my car, I say slowdown he slows down. I say
speed up he speeds up. He does
everything I tell him to do. I wouldn’t have a deacon that
did any thing less than that. Amen?”
PAGE 34: Estep states: “Okay. You say well boy you sound like you’re a dictator. Yes sir, I just about am, but you’ve got to realize that I’m also – the head
of every man is Christ. I’m not, I’m not without authority. I have authority
over men. Not only that, just to help you out, I’m a member of
PAGE 36: Estep continues on: “When you have a problem in your church and it’s
beginning to affect other people like it was this, this, he said that the
gentiles are talking about this thing. It’s commonly reported that there’s fornica – When it gets to the point where it’s out in the
open, you must deal with it. I’ll tell you what preacher; if you
got any sense you’ll deal with it before it ever gets out in the open. They had waited far too long to handle the
problem. Amen? Alright, the power of discipline -Chapter 5 verse 4: 1
Corinthians 5:3 For I
verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as
though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ,
when ye are gathered together,
and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, In the name of our Lord Jesus
Christ, when you are gathered together with my spirit, with the power of
our Lord Jesus Christ – You have
the power, the authority, the right to do it! People are (garbled word) say: well we don’t want to do
the wrong thing. Ssshhhhh Shut up and do what God’s
given you the power to do. If
this man is, has done a wrong thing and people are talking about it – You need to handle it. You need to take care of it.
PAGE 37: Estep proceeds: “The power of
discipline; you have the
power - do it! if somebody in your church is ah, gossiping; if
somebody in your church is
fornicating; if somebody in your
church is drinking; you take,
you handle it! You go to them! You have the power – Do it!
People just hope and pray that it will go away. And usually by the time they
get around to handling it, they no longer have to handle just one person, they
have to handle a group of people” “who have been caught up in this man’s sin.
What does sin do to a man? Sin blinds a man. And the works of the flesh are
heresy. Uh, uh, uh the Bible said about a heretic – he’s subverted in he’s, in
that he sinneth.” Titus
3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and
second admonition reject; 11 Knowing
that he that is such is subverted,
and sinneth, being condemned
of himself. “Heresy’s not the problem
with a man when you deal with heresy.” “Its sin that caused the blindness that
brought about the heresy. You don’t - Forget
about the heresy, that’s just
a little limb on the tree, you
need to get to the root.”
PAGE 38: Estep continues: “And
the root is some sin of disobedience.
Somewhere in there he’s disobedient to God; disobedient to
his pastor; or the woman is
disobedient to her husband. Get to the root! Don’t fool with the branches! And
don’t let it, don’t let it spoil other people. Don’t wait until its spread all
throughout your church and the, you gotta draw the whole church in on it to get the thing straightened out. Cause it
will be a rough ride for a while if you
have to it that way.”
PAGE 38: Estep continues with his point: “It’s better, you just, you just, I’ll tell you what, I’ll tell you what God will do for you.” “If you promise God that you’ll handle
problems when they come up, in a Biblical manner,” God will then begin to expose the problems
early. If you tell God: God I want this church to be, to be your bri - a picture
of your bride – clean, without spot, without wrinkle. If you’ll show me where the wrinkles are and
you’ll show me where the
spots are I’ll remove
them.”
PAGE 39: Estep continues: “I’ll believe God - Listen! When a woman, when a woman committed
adultery in the Old Testament how did God reveal it? There was a test; the
spirit of jealousy would come upon that man and that man would take that woman
down to the priest, wouldn’t he? Amen. Well that’s, it, you, that spirit will come upon you. He’ll let you
know about things.”
PAGE 40: Estep proceeds with his dissertation: “Some discipline will help the Individual,
some discipline will help somebody else, but all discipline will help somebody.
Sometime it won’t help the person you’re
disciplining. Now look here in 1 Corinthians chapter 5. Get this, get this, get
this – verse 7: ‘Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump.
That’s the purpose – it’s for, it’s for you to be clean. Whether he ever gets
right or not, you want the assembly, the people, the congregation to be clean.
He said purge out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, as you are
unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us. Look! Look
preacher, if God didn’t stop at sacrificing his own precious Son for your good,
why would you stop at sacrificing a fornicator for the church’s good?”
PAGE 40: Estep continues: “Some people just say – I just, I just don’t know how to go to them. It
doesn’t matter wha, wha,
you can go to them in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and His power. ‘I can
do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me’. 3 John: 9-11 If he’s told you to do it
and given you the power to do it, you can do it. It’s like people telling
you, you can’t I just don’t, I just can’t witness. Oh don’t tell me that, You can do what God gives you the power to do, and if
God’s given you the authority in your home or the authority in your church, you have the power
of discipline. “You can do it. Now I realize somebody else in your church can’t do
it. God hasn’t invested the authority or power in them.”
PAGE 41: Estep finishes up his point: “Just like somebody’s not to
discipline your children for you, that’s your power.
That’s your authority. It’s important. It’s for the whole group and it will
sometimes help the individual that you
are disciplining.”
PAGE 42: Estep proceeds: “The punishments, the punishments – Matthew 18. These are the orders of
the punishments. Hi brother Jones. Yeah, amen brother. Matthew Chapter 18. I’m
glad you said that brother Danny, not me. I live too close to him. There is a
orderly fashion of Biblical discipline that God has given us. In Matthew 18 –
some of you say well, uh, uh this is before the church begins. Yes, but its not
before the local church
begins. There are local churches
clear back in the Old Testament.”
PAGE 42: Estep continues: “Talks about
PAGE 43: Estep proceeds: “at this point you’re no longer concerned about whether he gets right
or not. from now on you’re concerned about everybody else, amen? the first, the
first consideration is the individual, but if the individual doesn’t respond – scratch him! for even Christ our sacrifice, our,
our saviour, our substitute, our passover is sacrificed. sacrifice him! sacrifice him! it, you say well it’s a relative – sacrifice him!”
PAGE 44: Estep continues: “Did I ask my mother and father to leave my church brother Rick?
My father disobeyed my authority in our church and I
went to my dad, the hardest thing I ever had to do, and I said: Dad you have
got to leave. Only I said: either you are going to pastor this church or I am.
And right now I believe God put me here – it was the hardest thing I ever had
to do brother Steve – but I did it!
You say: how could you do
that?
I had the power to do it! He said: ‘I can do all things through Christ’. And everybody
knows to my church – that’s my uncle sitting right there. That’s
my uncle’s boy. If he did wrong in my church I went to him. If my
uncle did wrong in my church I went to them. Why?
Because my, my priority is, is, is to do what God has called me to do. I am to
forsake father and mother; sister and brother; and follow Him. And if you can’t
do that, your life is going to be a wilderness experience from here to heaven.
I just recognize I can’t pastor everybody, when some folks will not follow
me. It is better for them to find somebody else to follow, before they try to get a
following.”
PAGE 45: Estep continues: “Last of all or next of all, you withdraw fellowship. I, I’m out of
time so I gotta just give you the verses – Romans
PAGE 46: Estep Proceeds: “Like I told you, you go back slow and you go back easy. And you, and
you pray about it and, and you just say OK Lord, I’m gonna
let the peace of God rule. If
there’s a problem, you know it won’t take long, that guy will probably come up to you and say:
We just don’t think this is
right now, and immediately you say: OK Lord I get the message. Say: Let’s you
and I step down in my office and have a talk. Don’t! Let me give you a hint,
don’t go to their home and talk to them. Cause you see he’s master of his home. You, you take him into that office,
where you’re the master!” “You
take him to that home boy and you’re outnumbered; wife and kids, their against ya. Yes sir. Amen. He’s been there. Ha, ha, ha, ha,
amen.”
PAGE 46: Estep jumps: “I, I didn’t give you, I didn’t give you this, this submitting to the
secular authority. I didn’t get around to it. I, Watchman Nee said a great
thing. You obviously are all thinking about Daniel, who disobeyed
Nebuchadnezzar; your thinking about the three Hebrew children who disobeyed, but you know
what those 3 Hebrew children did? Daniel was in submission to the secular
authorities. He was in submission, but
on the issue of prayer he disobeyed. But
he was still in submission. When they came to get him, he said: “I’ll go
with you’. When they said: ‘into the Lion’s den?’ He walked into the Lion’s Den.” Daniel
PAGE 47: This concluded the public portion
of Mr. Estep’s teaching on “The Doctrine of Submission”. The remainder of the
lesson was tape recorded in a room (Office?) with Mr. Estep by himself without
an audience. The last part of his “study” was on Secular Rule. Estep refers to
“Spiritual Rule” vs. “Selfish Ruin”, and lays out his outline for the entire
lesson: #1: Personal Rule or Personal
Reign. #2: Sanctified Family Reign or Rule. #3: Spiritual Rule in the church,
in the assembly. #4: Secular Rule. In reference to the study on Secular Rule
Estep refers to several Scriptures (most of which he fails to quote) in support
of his doctrine.
PAGE 51: Estep proceeds: “Oh they pretend they know God, and love God and are Godly. But ah, it,
the Spirit, the power of God, they’re, they’re Godly but they ah, rather they
deny the power of God. You know what
power is? That’s authority – and God gives power to the king; to the head of the
home; to the head of the church; to you personally in the person
of the Holy Spirit, to control your spirit. See, having a form of Godliness,
but denying the power, that’s
revolutionary. Anybody that overthrows the pastoral
authority; headship of a home; ah,
or the authority of the King is a, is absolutely, diametrically opposed to the
word of God.”
PAGE 52: “This
is pastor Estep thanking you for listening, and praying that the studies have
done for you what they’ve done for my
church, people of my church and
others around the country and myself also. God bless you in your Christian
walk; that you may walk in the spirit in obedience; in loving obedience; in
Christ’s name amen.”
END OF TAPE FOUR - SIDE TWO - END OF
LESSONS